Message Board

Human Nature -How Will it Affect Our Species Chances of Long-term Survival?

hicksfan — Thur, 08 May 2008 19:41:26 GMT

http://www.dailygalaxy.com/my_weblog/2008/05/human-nature--d.html

Its a given that Earth cannot survive indefinitely, if for no other reason than that the sun will eventually expand and roast the planet. Of course, many scientists believe that by the time that happens, life will have long since disappeared on this planet for other reasonsmany of them involving manmade disasters. Are they just being pessimistic, or realistic, or both?

Human behavior is often inexplicably bizarre, destructive and counterintuitive, and yet weve made it this far. However, in the past, we havent had the technological means to cause mass destruction to life on the planet. Now we do, says Sir Martin Rees, and he thinks well get around to using it to our own detriment sooner or later. In fact, the Royal Society Research Professor at Cambridge and Britain's Astronomer Royal says he believes humans have only a 50% chance of making it through just the next century alone.

Many other notable scientists agree with Rees predictions, although they all seem to have a favorite doomsday scenario from super-viruses to meteor impacts. For renowned scientist James Lovelock, the world has already passed the point of no return due to climate change. He writes, "Before this century is over, billions of us will die, and the few breeding pairs of people that survive will be in the Arctic, where the climate remains tolerable." He doesnt even advocate cutting CO2 emissions, because he says its a case of too little too late at this point.

That sounds really pessimistic, so lets hope the climate models are WAY off. In the book Our Final Hour, Rees points out that, climate change aside, humans are still in far greater danger from the potential effects of modern technology and our own inexplicably destructive natures than we commonly realize. According to Rees, the 21st century is a critical moment in history when humanity's fate is decided.

While some of the dangers predicted involve natural events, such as super-eruptions and asteroid impacts, Rees seems to think that the man-made disasters like engineered viruses, nuclear terrorism, and even a take-over by super-intelligent machines, are just as significant, if not more, of a threat to our long-term survival.

If you think the answer is to simply keep the crazy or evil people locked up, consider that youre going to need to lock down everyone on the planetincluding yourself! Cracked writer Alexandra Gedrose recently (and quite amusingly I might add) summed up the 5 psychological experiments that clearly illustrate how every human being on this planet is a potential psychopath, making the prognosis for humanitys long-term future look even more grim.

Gedrose notes how you have to be careful when you go poking around the human mind because you're never sure what you'll find there. A number of psychological experiments over the years have yielded terrifying conclusions about the subjects.

Here are the five frightening psychological experiments (a condensed version of Gedroses darkly humorous summary) that indicate the human race is going to hell in a hand-basket sooner rather than later:

#5.
The Asch Conformity Experiment (1953)

The Setup:
Solomon Asch wanted to run a series of studies that would document the power of conformity, for the purpose of depressing everyone who would ever read the results.

Subjects were told that they would be taking part in a vision test, along with a handful of people. The participants were then shown pictures, and individually asked to answer very simple and obvious questions. The catch was that everybody else in the room other than the subject was in on it, and they were were told to give obviously wrong answers. So would the subject go against the crowd, even when the crowd was clearly and retardedly wrong?

The Result:
Over 1/3 (32%) of the subjects would answer incorrectly if they saw that three others in the classroom gave the same wrong answer. Even when the line was plainly off by a few inches, it didn't matter. One in three would follow the group right off the proverbial cliff.

#4.
The Good Samaritan Experiment (1973)

The Setup:
The Biblical story of the Good Samaritan, if you hadn't heard, is about a passing Samaritan helping an injured man in need, while other, self-righteous types walk right on by. Psychologists John Darley and C. Daniel Batson wanted to test if religion has any effect on helpful behavior.

Their subjects were a group of seminary students. Half of the students were given the story of the Good Samaritan and asked to perform a sermon about it in another building. The other half were told to give a sermon about job opportunities in a seminary.

As an extra twist, subjects were given different times that they had to deliver the sermon so that some would be in a hurry and others not.

Then, on the way to the building, subjects would pass a person slumped in an alleyway, who looked to be in dire need of help.

The Result:
The people who had been studying the Good Samaritan story did not stop any more often than the ones preparing for a speech on job opportunities. The factor that really seemed to make a difference was how much of a hurry the students were in.

In fact, if pressed for time, only 10 percent would stop to give any aid, even when they were on their way to give a sermon about how awesome it is for people to stop and give aid.

#3.
Bystander Apathy Experiment (1968)

The Setup:
When a woman was murdered in 1964, newspapers printed that 38 people had heard and seen the attack, but did nothing. John Darley and Bibb Latane wanted to know if the fact that these people were in a large group played any role in the reluctance to come to aid.

The two psychologists invited volunteers to take part in a discussion. They claimed that because the discussion would be extremely personal (probably asking about the size of their genitals or something) individuals would be separated in different rooms and talk to each other using an intercom.

During the conversation, one of the members would fake an epileptic seizure, which could be heard on the speakers.

The Result:
When subjects believed that they were the only other person in the discussion, 85 percent were heroic enough to leave the room and seek help once the other began the fake seizure. So that's good, right?

It get worse. When the experiment was altered so that subjects believed four other people were in the discussion, only 31 percent went to look for help once the seizure began. The rest assumed someone else would take care of it. So the phrase, "The more, the merrier" somehow got lost in translation because the correct expression should be, "The more, the higher probability that you will die if you have a seizure."

#2.
The Stanford Prison Experiment (1971)

The Setup:
Psychologist Philip Zimbardo wanted to find out how captivity affects authorities and inmates in prison. Sounds innocent enough. Seriously, what could go wrong?

Zimbardo transformed the Stanford Psychology Department's basement into a mock prison. Subjects volunteered by simply responding to a newspaper ad and then passing a test proving good health and high-quality mental stability. These volunteers were all male college students who were then divided arbitrarily into 12 guards and 12 prisoners. Zimbardo himself decided that he wanted to play too, and elected himself Prison Superintendent. The simulation was planned to run for two weeks.

Yep, nothing at all can go wrong with this.

The Result:
It took about one day for every subject to go nutes. On only the second day, prisoners staged a riot in the faux detention center, with prisoners barricading their cells with their beds and taunting the guards. The guards saw this as a pretty good excuse to start squirting fire extinguishers at the insurgents. Guards began forcing inmates to sleep naked on the concrete, restricting the bathroom as a privilege (one that was often denied). They forced prisoners to do humiliating exercises and had them clean toilets with their bare hands.

Incredibly, when "prisoners" were told they had a chance at parole, and then the parole was denied, it didn't occur to them to simply ask out of the damned experiment. Remember they had absolutely no legal reason to be imprisoned, it was just a damned role-playing exercise. This fact continued to escape them as they sat naked in their own filth, with bags on their heads.

Over 50 outsiders had stopped to observe the prison, but the morality of the trial was never questioned until Zimbardo's girlfriend, Christina Maslach, strongly objected. After only six days, Zimbardo put a halt to the experiment (several of the "guards" expressed disappointment at this).

Give us absolute power over somebody and a blank check from our superiors, and Abu Ghraib-esque naked pyramids are sure to follow. Hey, if it can happen to a bunch of Vietnam-era hippie college students, it sure as hell could happen to you.

#1.
The Milgram Experiment (1961)

The Setup:
When the prosecution of the Nazis got underway at the Nuremberg Trials, many of the defendants' excuse seemed to revolve around the ideas of, "I'm not really a prick" and, "Hey man, I was just following orders." Yale University psychologist Stanley Milgram wanted to test willingness of subjects to obey an authority figure using an experiment where the subject was told he was a "teacher" and that his job was to give a memory test to another subject, located in another room. The whole thing was fake and the other subject was an actor.

The subject was told that whenever the other guy gave an incorrect answer, he was to press a button that would give him an electric shock. A guy in a lab coat was there to make sure he did it (again no real shock was being delivered, but the subject of course did not know this).

The subject was told that the shocks started at 45 volts and would increase with every wrong answer. Each time they pushed the button, the actor on the other end would scream and beg for the subject to stop.

So, can you guess how this went?

The Result:
Many subjects began to feel uncomfortable after a certain point, and questioned continuing the experiment. However, each time the guy in the lab coat encouraged them to continue. Most of them did, upping the voltage, delivering shock after shock while the victim screamed. Many subjects would laugh nervously, because laughter is the best medicine when pumping electrical currents through another person's body.

Eventually the actor would start banging on the wall that separated him from the subject, pleading about his heart condition. After further shocks, all sounds from victim's room would cease, indicating he was dead or unconscious. If you had to guess, what percentage of the subjects kept delivering shocks after that point?

Five percent? Ten?

Shockingly (pun intended), two thirds of the subjects (between 61 and 66 percent) continued the experiment until it reached the maximum voltage of 450, continuing to deliver shocks after the victim had been zapped into unconsciousness or the afterlife. Repeated studies have shown the same result: Subjects will mindlessly deliver pain to an innocent stranger as long as a dude in a lab coat says it's OK.

Most subjects wouldn't even begin to object until after 300-volt shocks. Zero of them asked to stop the experiment before that point (keep in mind 100 volts is enough to kill a man, in some cases).

Charles Sheridan and Richard King took this experiment one step further, but asked subjects to shock a helpless puppy for every incorrect action it made. Unlike Milgram's experiment, this shock was real. Exactly 20 out of 26 subjects went to the highest voltage.

Almost 80 percent. Think about that when you're walking around the mall: Eight out of ten of those people you see would torture the shit out of a puppy if a dude in a lab coat asked them to. If you would guess that womencommonly believed to be more nurturing than menwere more compassionate in this study, then you would guess wrong. The six students who refused to go on were all men. All thirteen women who participated in the experiment shocked the hell out of the sweet, adorable puppy right up until the end.

But its worth considering that humankinds unpredictability goes both ways. We might not make it through the century, but on the other hand, we might evolve into a highly rational, peace-loving race that goes on to colonize the entire universe. You just never can tell.

Forum: General Discussion

American Atheists

Cynic — Tue, 06 May 2008 22:19:36 GMT

So, it looks like more drama for American Atheists. Their board of directors abruptly fired their long-time president (Ellen Johnson) while she away. Anyone have the dirt on this? What is it with American Atheists, anyway? They get all the press and money, yet have controversy after controversy and seem to be generally feckless hangers-on to organizations that actually do something.

Forum: General Discussion

45 Scientists Dump Global Warming Deniers in 24 Hours

hicksfan — Sun, 04 May 2008 15:20:26 GMT

http://www.environmentalgraffiti.com/business/45-scientists-dump-global-warming-deniers-in-24-hours/1117

Something phenomenal has happened in the last 24 hours. Our friends over at DeSmogBlog took it upon themselves to see what the scientists who are on the famed list of 500 scientists who dont believe in global warming actually think and as it turns out, many of them didnt know they were on it.

Now, in the past, theres already been plenty of fun to have with lists of global warming deniersSen. James Inhofe took a list of 400 to the Senate floor, not realizing that when he was fact-checked it would come out that he had enlisted 44 TV weathermen. However, this takes the cake. Why? Because the already-incredible result that DeSmogBlog has produced is only 24 hours old. This is only going to get worse for The Heartland Institute, who assembled the list, and now has to deal with quotes like these:

"I am horrified to find my name on such a list. I have spent the last 20 years arguing the opposite."

Dr. David Sugden. Professor of Geography, University of Edinburgh

"I have NO doubts ..the recent changes in global climate ARE man-induced. I insist that you immediately remove my name from this list since I did not give you permission to put it there."

Dr. Gregory Cutter, Professor, Department of Ocean, Earth and Atmospheric Sciences, Old Dominion University

"I dont believe any of my work can be used to support any of the statements listed in the article."

Dr. Robert Whittaker, Professor of Biogeography, University of Oxford

Yeah. Game, set and match, to people that dont think that global warming is a cover for the world socialist conspiracy. Stay tuned.

Forum: News/Current Events

Jews for Jesus

denis — Sat, 03 May 2008 02:38:00 GMT

June 28, 1989

Jews for Jesus
4801 Keele St Unit 45
Downsview, On M3J 3A4

Subject: I was amazed
================
Yes, I was amazed.

8 PM Monday night, Jun.26th.
Meeting room, St-Mary's Church, Ottawa.
Regular meeting of "Reborn Christians".
Special occasion; talk by a Jewish convert: how it happened.
I was there.
My first time at a revival meeting.

8 o'clock: it starts. 3 songs in a row. Chuck Berry style. Hands in the air,
palms up, side to side body moves. Jesus implored. He responds. Sends the
Holy Spirit. Enters everybody. Everybody's in a trance.

The stage is set.
He's introduced.
Steps up to the mike.
He yells "SHALOM!".
Gets a captive audience.

...Well, that Holy Spirit didn't enter me. Understandable. My first time.
Probably didn't shake my hands properly. Maybe next time. Well, think I'll
stick around and watch.

I was amazed.
Perfect orchestration.
Simply beautiful.

Let me describe him: your typical Jew: short, rotund, mischievous eyes,
stubby fingers, hairy arms. And the beard. Cut kinda short. Just enough.
Enough left to remain Jewish. Enough cut to indicate not all Jewish no more.

The perfect specimen.
And his name is Goldstein.
And he's new Canadian Chief of "Jews for Jesus".
And he's from the Bronx, New York.
And he's applied for Canadian citizenship.
And he's had the Vietnam stint.
And he was no hero: scared all the time...the crowd loves it.

The perfect scenario:
Rule 1: poke fun at yourself, the Jewish race; just enough: don't overdo it,
        use words they've heard before, like "kosher"...
Rule 2: make the audience part of it: call them Gentiles; that's sure to get
        a few laughs, plus they like that...
Rule 3: now really get 'em on your side; a few nice things about their hero
        Jesus; can't miss...
Rule 4: time to explain "Jews for Jesus": the present struggle to carry the
        message, shortage of funds...
Rule 5: tell 'em what their donations will do for Jesus; this is the best
        way to introduce the "free-will baskets"...
Rule 6: next, subtly and briefly, remind them that their ancestors were cruel
        to Jews; this creates guilt and most will double their donations...
Rule 7: quickly switch to a complimentary remark about today's Christians, so
        they don't change their minds...
Rule 8: bring out the baskets so they see them, acting as if you're ready to
        hand them out...
Rule 9: STOP: have them join you in a prayer to Jesus, asking for a fruitful
        collection in His name...
Rule 10:While the baskets are going around, keep up the "proper atmosphere"
        by introducing your wife (make sure to use a Jewish first name), also
        mention how lucky your two kids are, being exposed to Jesus at such
        an early age...

Repeating: I was amazed.

And I learned something. That Jesus was not in Africa, as I thought, helping
the starving poor and oppressed, and waiting patiently for us Christians to
give him a hand...no: he's right here ensuring that we remain well fed, he's
right here ready to intervene on our behalf as answer to our prayers for
promotions at work and good weather for our holidays.

And I'll never forget the instant power of Rule #6; I saw it in action...an
elderly lady two seats to my right turned white, shook as she took on all the
guilt of past generations, then alleviated this guilt by pulling out a cheque
and making it out for 150 bucks, then murmuring a few apologies to Jesus.
Keep an eye out when you prepare the bank deposit; you'll see it: a blue
cheque drawn on the Bank of Montreal.

And I decided something: I'm going to do something similar. Well, I thought,
if this works so well, what about Christians who would similarly wish to meet
Moses. Gee, this would probably work still better: it's gotta be more fun
than waiting for the Messiah, more fun than waiting for a dude that's been
here already. Yes, I'll do it: I'm starting "Gentiles for Moses".

And I would like to ask for your assistance. Any start-up material and stuff
would be appreciated. Maybe once I get going smoothly and am able to show
its future accelerating cash flow potential, we can get together and discuss
a merger. Think of the potential. Like having combined presentations where
we both take our turns doing "our thing": donors usually appreciate a choice,
and who knows, maybe a few will contribute to both. And then, we can always
expand, even go international; I can already picture it: "Jews for Mohammed",
"Muslims for Jesus", "Gentiles for Bhudda"...it's endless: what a potential!

With all the faith I can muster, I will pray to Jesus (and to Moses, Bhudda,
Mohammed...can't hurt) and feel confident that with all this backing you will
be inspired to assist me, and therefore thank you in advance for the positive
reply that I know I'll be receiving soon.

Forum: Humor

Cardinal: Giuliani wrong to take Communion

hicksfan — Tue, 29 Apr 2008 16:01:08 GMT

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/24359892/

Egan says pro-choice ex-mayor violated 'understanding' during pope's visit

NEW YORK - Rudy Giuliani should not have received Holy Communion during the pope's visit because the former presidential candidate supports abortion rights, New York Cardinal Edward Egan said Monday.

Egan says he had "an understanding" with Giuliani that he is not to receive the Eucharist. The Catholic Church teaches "that abortion is a grave offense against the will of God," Egan said.

The cardinal said Monday that Giuliani broke that understanding when he received the Eucharist during Pope Benedict XVI's visit earlier this month. He received Communion during the April 19 service from one of the many clergymen who offered the sacrament.

Egan says he will be seeking a meeting with Giuliani "to insist that he abide by our understanding."

Giuliani's spokeswoman, Sunny Mindel, said Monday that he is willing to meet with the cardinal but added that his faith "is a deeply personal matter and should remain confidential."

Egan's statement does not address the fact that Giuliani is on his third marriage. Catholics who divorce and remarry without getting an annulment from the church cannot receive Communion.

A spokesman for Egan said that the cardinal referred to the abortion issue rather than to Giuliani's marital history because the agreement that Giuliani would not receive Communion pre-dated his divorce from his second wife, Donna Hanover.

Giuliani's first marriage was annulled based on the fact that he and his wife were second cousins once removed. Giuliani married Hanover in 1984 and they divorced in 2002, while he was New York's mayor. He has been married to the former Judith Nathan since 2003.

Communion and abortion rights became a storyline in 2004, when Democratic presidential nominee John Kerry, a Catholic, came under scrutiny for supporting abortion rights in conflict with church teaching.

Egan's criticism of Giuliani, however, is a rare case of a Catholic bishop criticizing a public figure by name. Most bishops who spoke about Communion and the responsibility of Catholic politicians did so in general terms without naming names.

Kerry's own archbishop, Sean O'Malley of Boston, endorsed the principle without naming the senator.

Forum: Church & State

'Free Tibet' flags made in China

hicksfan — Mon, 28 Apr 2008 16:18:53 GMT

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/asia-pacific/7370903.stm

Police in southern China have discovered a factory manufacturing Free Tibet flags, media reports say.

The factory in Guangdong had been completing overseas orders for the flag of the Tibetan government-in-exile.

Workers said they thought they were just making colourful flags and did not realise their meaning.

But then some of them saw TV images of protesters holding the emblem and they alerted the authorities, according to Hong Kong's Ming Pao newspaper.

Tibet independence

The factory owner reportedly told police the emblems had been ordered from outside China, and he did not know that they stood for an independent Tibet.

Workers who had grown suspicious checked the meaning of the flag by going online.

Thousands of flags had already been packed for shipping.

Police believe that some may already have been sent overseas, and could appear in Hong Kong during the Olympic torch relay there this week.

The authorities have now stepped up the inspection of cars heading to the Shenzen Special Economic Zone and onwards to Hong Kong.

The Olympic torch is due to tour Hong Kong on Friday. It will then travel to a series of cities in mainland China before reaching Beijing for the start of the Olympic Games in August.

Its progress around the world has been marked by pro-Tibet demonstrations in several cities - including Paris, London and San Francisco.

Rallies began in the main Tibetan city of Lhasa on 10 March, led by Buddhist monks.

Over the following week protests spread and became violent - particularly in Lhasa, where ethnic Chinese were targeted and shops were burnt down.

Beijing cracked down on the protesters with force, sending in hundreds of troops to regain control of the restive areas.

But it has since agreed to resume talks with representatives of the Dalai Lama.

Forum: General Discussion

Atheist's Lawsuit Cites His Treatment in the Army

Cynic — Sun, 27 Apr 2008 03:22:56 GMT

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,352703,00.html

Atheist's Lawsuit Cites His Treatment in the Army

JUNCTION CITY, Kan. Like hundreds of young men joining the Army in recent years, Jeremy Hall professes a desire to serve his country while it fights terrorism.

But the short and soft-spoken specialist is at the center of a legal controversy. He has filed a lawsuit alleging he's been harassed and his constitutional rights have been violated because he doesn't believe in God. The suit names Defense Secretary Robert Gates.

"I'm not in it for cash," Hall said. "I want no one else to go what I went through."

Known as "the atheist guy," Hall has been called immoral, a devil worshipper and just as severe to some soldiers gay, none of which, he says, is true. Hall even drove fellow soldiers to church in Iraq and paused while they prayed before meals.

"I see a name and rank and United States flag on their shoulder. That's what I believe everyone else should see," he said.

Hall, 23, was raised in a Protestant family in North Carolina and dropped out of school before earning his GED. It wasn't until after he joined the Army that he began questioning religion, eventually deciding he couldn't follow any faith.

But he feared how that would look to other soldiers.

"I was ashamed to say that I was an atheist," Hall said.

It eventually came out in Iraq in 2007, when he was in a firefight. Hall was a gunner on a Humvee, which took several bullets in its protective shield. Afterward, his commander asked whether he believed in God, Hall said.

"I said, 'No, but I believe in Plexiglas,"' Hall said. "I've never believed I was going to a happy place. You get one life. When I die, I'm worm food."

The issue came to a head when, according to Hall, a superior officer, Maj. Freddy J. Welborn, threatened to bring charges against him for trying to hold a meeting of atheists in Iraq. Welborn has denied Hall's allegations.

Hall said he had had enough but feared he wouldn't get support from Welborn's superiors. He turned to Mikey Weinstein and the Military Religious Freedom Foundation.

Weinstein is the foundation's president and a U.S. Air Force Academy graduate. He had previously sued the Air Force for acts he said illegally imposed Christianity on students at the academy, though that case was dismissed. He calls Hall a hero.

"The average American doesn't have enough intestinal fortitude to tell someone to shut up if they are talking in a movie theater," Weinstein said. "You know how hard it is to take on your chain of command? This isn't the shift manager at KFC."

Hall was in Qatar when the lawsuit was filed on Sept. 18 in federal court in Kansas City, Kan. Other soldiers learned of it and he feared for his own safety. Once, Hall said, a group of soldiers followed him, harassing him, but no one did anything to make it stop.

The Army told him it couldn't protect him and sent him back to Fort Riley. He resumed duties with a military police battalion. He believes his promotion to sergeant has been blocked because of his lawsuit, but he is a team leader responsible for two junior enlisted soldiers.

No one with Fort Riley, the Army or Defense Department would comment about Hall or the lawsuit. Each issued statements saying that discrimination will not be tolerated regardless of race, religion or gender.

"The Department respects (and supports by its policy) the rights of others to their own religious beliefs, including the right to hold no beliefs," said Eileen Lainez, a spokeswoman for the Department of Defense.

All three organizations said existing systems help soldiers "address and resolve any perceived unfair treatment."

Lt. Col. David Shurtleff, a Fort Riley chaplain, declined to discuss Hall's case but said chaplains accommodate all faiths as best they can. In most cases, religious issues can be worked out without jeopardizing military operations.

"When you're in Afghanistan and an IED blows up a Humvee, they aren't asking about a wounded soldier's faith," Shurtleff said.

Hall said he enjoys being a team leader but has been told that having faith would make him a better leader.

"I will take care of my soldiers. Nowhere does it say I have to pray with my soldiers, but I do have to make sure my soldiers' religious needs are met," he said.

"Religion brings comfort to a lot of people," he said. "Personally, I don't want it or need it. But I'm not going to get down on anybody else for it."

Hall leaves the Army in April 2009. He would like to find work with the National Park Service or Environmental Protection Agency, anything outdoors.

"I hope this doesn't define me," Hall said of his lawsuit. "It's just about time somebody said something."

Forum: Church & State

Man claims responsibility for Phoenix mystery lights

hicksfan — Thur, 24 Apr 2008 14:08:35 GMT
http://www.ktar.com/?nid=6&sid=814826

A Phoenix man says he caused the red light display that mystified thousands of people as it floated across the north Phoenix sky Monday night.

The man, who did not want to be identified, said he used fishing line to attach road flares to helium-filled balloons, then lit the flares and launched them a minute apart from his back yard. He said he believed turbulence created by a passing jet caused the balloons to move around.

Lino Mailo said he saw his next-door neighbor launch the balloons.

``I saw the guy releasing the balloons with the flares on them," Mailo said. ``There is no doubt that they came from here."

He added, ``I don't think it's a cool prank because it can panic people."

Phoenix Police helicopter pilot Bruce Bates, who saw the lights, said the balloons explanation makes sense.

``People say they saw different shapes -- a square, a diamond, an arrow, all these different shapes. Well, that's just the balloons moving around in the wind currents," he said.

Some people will always think the lights were UFOs, Bates said.

``I think people want to believe what they want to believe."

A sky lantern company's web site said skylanterns can last for up to 20 minutes, rise about a mile high and can travel for miles.

Valley astronomer Steve Kates, better known as Dr. Sky, believes there's a reasonable explanation for the lights, although he doesn't know what it is.

``I believe life abounds in the universe, but I just have a hard time accepting many of the things that I'm hearing, or seeing, that it has a direct relationship to people or creatures coming from another world. Why not land? Why not show yourself? And where's the evidence?" he said.

While the Air Force and other military agencies said the lights were not connected to any of their operations, Kates said, ``The Air force and every other government agency, of course, has the opportunity to deny that their aircraft or anything that they were doing was going on at the time that we saw something in the sky."

He said it's unlikely the lights were some kind of alien craft from outer space and said an explanation probably will surface after videos and pictures are analyzed.

The lights brought back memories of lights that hovered over the same area of Phoenix for about three hours on March 13, 1997.

Why does the Valley have strange light sightings?

``Clear skies, open spaces, wide skies to look at. That's probably one of the reasons why we're seeing it," Kates says.

He says it's really all kind of exciting, bringing special attention to the Valley.

``Maybe the governor will proclaim the state of Arizona ``the UFO-sighting state" or have a new license plate. Who knows?" he said.

Dozens of listeners called News/Talk 92-3 KTAR just after 8 p.m. Monday, reporting they were watching the four mystery lights.

``From my position, it looked like they were just hanging, not moving at all," said one man, who called 92-3's ``Gaydos After Dark." He said he ``absolutely" saw something.

A woman caller said, ``It looked like four red tower lights, but it was pretty high up in the air. I called my husband and he said, `Get home, what's wrong with you?'"

A man in north Phoenix told CBS-5: ``They were about 3,000 feet high, approximately. They looked as though they were kind of hovering or floating from west to east, very slowly. They were up there for 15 or 20 minutes."

Callers said the lights appeared at one point in a straight line, and also formed a square and then a triangle. They were visible for about 15 minutes around 8 p.m. before heading to the east and disappearing.

Deer Valley Airport, which was the closest air field to the lights, had no explanation for them. Neither did Phoenix Sky Harbor International Airport or Luke Air Force Base, which said it had no jets flying at the time.

NORAD, the North American Aerospace Defense Command, said its command center at Peterson Air Force Base and Cheyenne Mountain Operations Center in Colorado Springs, Colo., had no information on the lights. It referred people to the American Meteor Society, Smithsonian Astrophysican Observatory and the Defense Department's Joint Space Operations Center.

Ian Gregor, a spokesman for the Federal Aviation Administration, said, ``A lot of people were reporting seeing some strange lights in the sky around Phoenix last night. Air traffic controllers at the control tower at Sky Harbor saw them. But, we have no idea what they were."

Gregor added, tongue-in-cheek, ``It could be aliens coming down to save us from ourselves, you never know. The only thing I do know is if they were coming down, they weren't talking to air traffic controllers."

On March 13, 1997, thousands of people reported seeing a v-shaped formation of lights over north Phoenix. They lasted about three hours. Some described them as forming a carpenter's square.

Among those who saw the lights in 1997 was former Gov. Fife Symington, who initially played down the episode. However, he said last year that he believes the lights came from ``crafts of unknown origin" and, ``It remains a great mystery."
Forum: General Discussion

Director's book disputes birth of Jesus

hicksfan — Thur, 24 Apr 2008 14:02:59 GMT
http://www.cnn.com/2008/SHOWBIZ/books/04/24/verhoeven.jesus.ap/index.html?eref=rss_latest

AMSTERDAM, Netherlands (AP) -- Film director Paul Verhoeven has written a book that contradicts the Bible by suggesting that Jesus might have been fathered by a Roman soldier who raped Mary.

An Amsterdam publishing house said Wednesday it would publish the Dutch filmmaker's biography of Jesus, "Jesus of Nazareth: A Realistic Portrait" in September.

Verhoeven is best known as the director of blockbuster films including "Basic Instinct" and "RoboCop," but he is also a member of "Jesus Seminar," a group of scholars and authors that seeks to establish historical facts about Jesus.

Marianna Sterk of the publishing house J.M. Meulenhoff said the book included several ideas that ran contrary to Christian faith, including the suggestion that Jesus could be the son of a Roman soldier who raped Mary during a Jewish uprising against Roman rule in 4 B.C.

The book also claims that Judas Iscariot was not responsible for Jesus' betrayal, she said.

The movie director's claims were greeted with some skepticism among those who have dedicated their careers to studying the life of Jesus.

One issue is that there is very little information about the life of Jesus outside of the Gospels. The Gospels as understood by Christians for nearly 2,000 years do not support Verhoeven's ideas.

William Portier, a professor of religious studies at the University of Dayton, in Ohio, said the Jesus Seminar was known for making provocative claims, but "they are real scholars -- you have to deal with them."

However, he said Verhoeven's ideas sounded "pretty out there."

John Dominic Crossan, a Jesus Seminar founder, agreed. He said that while Verhoeven was a member in good standing, there was little evidence for the view that Jesus was illegitimate.

Crossan said the claim was first reported in a polemic written in the second century against the Book of Matthew, intended for a Jewish audience.

"It's an obvious first retort to claims that Mary was a virgin," Crossan said. "If you wanted to do a hatchet job on Jesus' reputation, this would be the way."

The most likely scenario for people who don't accept that Jesus was literally the son of God and had no human father is simply that he was the son of Joseph, Crossan said.

Sterk said the book would be translated into English in 2009. Verhoeven hopes it will be a springboard for him to raise interest in making a film along the same lines, she said.

Verhoeven, 69, has dreamed of making a movie about Jesus' life for decades, she said.

Asked whether it would be difficult to follow Mel Gibson's "The Passion of the Christ" and Martin Scorsese's "The Last Temptation of Christ," she said Verhoeven knew he might be somewhat late to market.

"He is painfully aware of that," she said. "However, he has quite a different angle."
Forum: General Discussion

Pot church fights for home

hicksfan — Wed, 23 Apr 2008 14:02:38 GMT
http://thespec.com/News/Local/article/358494

Pot church fights for home

April 23, 2008
Barbara Brown
The Hamilton Spectator
(Apr 23, 2008)

Church of the Universe founders Walter Tucker and Michael Baldasaro are battling the Department of Justice, which wants the pair jailed for two years and their assembly's east Hamilton headquarters confiscated.

Tucker, 75, and fellow minister Baldasaro, 58, were convicted by a jury on Nov. 28 on five counts of trafficking in marijuana, which church members have used as a sacrament for the past 30 years.

The charges were laid after a Hamilton police officer, posing as a woman from Winnipeg who was new to town and down on her luck, visited their Barton Street East church in May 2003.

Tucker was convicted of three counts of trafficking in marijuana, the total quantity amounting to a few grams worth about $40. Baldasaro was found guilty on two counts involving 2.5 grams, or about $30 worth of pot.

Federal prosecutor Lou Strezos is seeking to have the property, worth about $98,000, forfeited to the Crown under the Controlled Drugs and Substances Act.

At his sentencing hearing yesterday, Baldasaro argued the property belonged the Assembly of the Church of the Universe and not to him or Tucker. He said police and prosecutors have claimed the church was a sham and its sacrament an excuse to smoke pot, but have never called an expert witness to dispute the church's legitimacy.

"I put it you, your Honour, that when alcohol was illegal, nobody asked the Pope about the sincerity of his religion," Baldasaro told Superior Court Justice John Cavarzan.

Defence lawyer Peter Boushy argued it was one thing for the Crown to seek the forfeitures of marijuana grow operations where property owners stood to make hundreds of thousands of dollars in the proceeds of crime. It was another matter entirely, he said, for the Crown to seize the primary residence of two aging men who had sold $70 worth of pot to an undercover cop.

Tucker said if the Crown could evict him and Baldasaro for selling a little marijuana, "then every house in this country where people smoke marijuana and pass it to each other is in danger. And I don't think that's what the law intended."

Prosecutor Strezos is expected to argue when the hearing resumes today why the repeat offenders should be jailed and their property seized.
Forum: General Discussion

Muslim call to adopt Mecca time

hicksfan — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:10:58 GMT
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/7359258.stm

Muslim scientists and clerics have called for the adoption of Mecca time to replace GMT, arguing that the Saudi city is the true centre of the Earth.

Mecca is the direction all Muslims face when they perform their daily prayers.

The call was issued at a conference held in the Gulf state of Qatar under the title: Mecca, the Centre of the Earth, Theory and Practice.

One geologist argued that unlike other longitudes, Mecca's was in perfect alignment to magnetic north.

He said the English had imposed GMT on the rest of the world by force when Britain was a big colonial power, and it was about time that changed.

Mecca watch

A prominent cleric, Sheikh Youssef al-Qaradawy, said modern science had at last provided evidence that Mecca was the true centre of the Earth; proof, he said, of the greatness of the Muslim "qibla" - the Arabic word for the direction Muslims turn to when they pray.

The meeting also reviewed what has been described as a Mecca watch, the brainchild of a French Muslim.

The watch is said to rotate anti-clockwise and is supposed to help Muslims determine the direction of Mecca from any point on Earth.

The meeting in Qatar is part of a popular trend in some Muslim societies of seeking to find Koranic precedents for modern science.

It is called "Ijaz al-Koran", which roughly translates as the "miraculous nature of the holy text".

The underlying belief is that scientific truths were also revealed in the Muslim holy book, and it is the work of scholars to unearth and publicise the textual evidence.

But the movement is not without its critics, who say that the notion that modern science was revealed in the Koran confuses spiritual truth, which is constant, and empirical truth, which depends on the state of science at any given point in time.
Forum: General Discussion

Small Church's Obama Sign Causes Big Controversy

hicksfan — Tue, 22 Apr 2008 14:08:59 GMT
http://www.wyff4.com/news/15948849/detail.html

JONESVILLE, S.C. -- The sign in front of a small church in a small town is causing a big controversy in Jonesville, S.C.

Pastor Roger Byrd said that he just wanted to get people thinking. So last Thursday, he put a new message on the sign at the Jonesville Church of God.

It reads: "Obama, Osama, hmm, are they brothers?

Byrd said that the message wasn't meant to be racial or political.

"It's simply to cause people to realize and to see what possibly could happen if we were to get someone in there that does not believe in Jesus Christ," he said.

When asked if he believes that Barack Obama is Muslim, Byrd said, "I don't know. See it asks a question: Are they brothers? In other words, is he Muslim ? I don't know. He says he's not. I hope he's not. But I don't know. And it's just something to try to stir people's minds. It was never intended to hurt feelings or to offend anybody."

Obama has said repeatedly during his campaign that he is a Christian and attends Trinity United Church of Christ in Chicago.

Despite some criticism, Byrd says that the message will stay on the sign. He took the issue before his congregation Sunday night, and they decided unanimously to keep it.

Byrd also said he doesn't want it to look like controversy forced him to take the sign down.
Forum: General Discussion

Christians clash at Jesus' tomb on Orthodox Palm Sunday

hicksfan — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 19:44:39 GMT
http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/20080420/ap_on_re_mi_ea/israel_clashing_christians

JERUSALEM - Dozens of Greek and Armenian priests and worshippers exchanged blows at one of Christianity's holiest shrines on Orthodox Palm Sunday, and used palm fronds to pummel police who tried to break up the brawl.

The fight came amid growing rivalry over religious rights at the Church of the Holy Sepulcher, built over the site in Jerusalem where tradition says Jesus was buried and resurrected.

It erupted when Armenian clergy kicked out a Greek priest from their midst, pushed him to the ground and kicked him, according to witnesses.

When police intervened, some worshippers hit them with the palm fronds they were holding for the religious holiday. The Eastern Orthodox churches, including the Armenians and Greek Orthodox, follow a different calendar from Western Christians and celebrate Easter next Sunday.

Two Armenian worshippers who attacked the Greek Orthodox clergy were briefly detained by Israeli police. Scores of Armenian supporters then protested outside the police station during the questioning of the two, beating drums and chanting.

The Holy Sepulcher is shared by several Christian denominations according to a centuries-old arrangement known as the "status quo."

Each denomination jealously guards its share of the basilica, and fights over rights at the church have intensified in recent years, particularly between the Armenians and Greeks.

Father Pakrad, an Armenian priest, said the presence of the Greek priest during the Armenian observances violated the status quo. "Our priests entered the tomb. They kicked the Greek monk out of the Edicule," he said, referring to the tomb area.

Pakrad accused the Greek Orthodox Christians of trying to step on the Armenians' rights. "We are the weak ones, persecuted by them for many centuries."

The Greek Orthodox Patriarch in the Holy Land, Theofilos III, told The Associated Press that the Armenians are pushing to change the rules, challenging what he said was the dominance of the Greek church in the Holy Land.

"This behavior is criminal and unacceptable by all means," he said. "They wanted to trespass on the status quo concerning the order that regulates the services between the various communities."

The Church of the Nativity in nearby Bethlehem where Jesus is said to have been born also falls under the status quo arrangement. Last year, pre-Christmas cleaning in that church turned ugly when robed Greek Orthodox and Armenian priests went at each other with brooms and stones.
Forum: General Discussion

Little League Inc. sues Pompano man over 'Christian Little League'

hicksfan — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 18:35:12 GMT
http://www.sun-sentinel.com/news/local/broward/sfl-flblittleleague0421sbapr21,0,5731885.story

Little League Baseball Inc. is suing a Pompano Beach man in Fort Lauderdale federal court for trademark violation over the name of his youth baseball group, Christian Little League.

The weight of the law is on the side of Little League, experts agreed. But Jay Kaplan, a 46-year-old father who started the league in January, insists he answers to a higher authority.

"GOD is the ultimate judge and has the final say," he wrote in a March 15 letter to Little League's lawyers.

Before filing suit Thursday, the organization's lawyers contacted Kaplan in a March 7 letter demanding that he stop using the Little League tag. The similar names could mislead and confuse the public by suggesting an affiliation between the groups, the lawyers wrote.

Kaplan responded with a four-page letter declaring only God could judge the dispute. He said no one would confuse his Coral Springs group with a secular organization and argued the phrase "little league" had entered the common vernacular.

"Christian Little League was GOD's idea and it is a great and wonderful idea," wrote Kaplan, who grew up Jewish and converted to Christianity. "I have no plans on changing the name GOD gave me."

Reached Friday on his way to Marlins youth baseball night, Kaplan said he had not yet seen the lawsuit.

"My position is Little League should embrace the name of Jesus. Let's start with that," he said.

But Little League's attorneys said God should be left out of it.

"The dispute is not theological, it is legal," the lawyers stated in a second letter sent March 17. They added: "Our client has no objection to your preaching the Gospel of Jesus Christ. ... Our client simply requests that you do so under a different name."

The letter suggested three alternatives Christian Youth League, Christian Youth Baseball and Christian Baseball League and threatened a lawsuit would follow if the name were not changed by March 28.

According to Kaplan, about 25 players have signed on to his fledging league, enough to field two teams.

"We play & we pray & we bible study," states the group's Web site at www.christianll.com, which notes the group is not affiliated with Little League Baseball Inc.

Christopher Downs, a spokesman for Little League headquarters in South Williamsport, Pa., said the Little League brand is often misused because it's so widely known.

"We have to be very protective of our trademark name and educate people that Little League is a trademarked entity that should not be used generically," Downs said. "Just because you have children playing youth baseball or youth softball doesn't mean they are playing Little League baseball or softball."

Little League, which got its start in 1939, has more than 2 million players in its baseball division and 400,000 participating in softball, according to its Web site.

It has a presence in 70 countries and at least 20 affiliated teams in Broward and Palm Beach counties.

It might seem odd that a group so entrenched in the American psyche would take notice of 25 players in Coral Springs.

However, trademark owners know they must be vigilant about protecting trademarks or risk losing them, said Matthew Nelles, a Fort Lauderdale trademark attorney at the law firm Ruden, McClosky, Smith, Schuster & Russell.

Nelles said trademark law does not treat religious entities any differently than nonreligious ones.

The basic principle is to protect the public from confusing one product with another, he said.

"Little League is a very strong trademark," Nelles said. "No one can contest the validity of that trademark."
Forum: General Discussion

"Sweet Jesus!"

deano — Mon, 21 Apr 2008 12:39:39 GMT

Forum: Humor